Campfire Chronicles Podcast #20 | Stream of Consciousness with Robby and Andrew

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In this episode, Robby and Andrew do their usually rambling on about things of little importance and topics that are only tangentially related to each other. Enjoy the show!

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Tags: bushcraft,backpacking,hiking,camping,wilderness,survival,outdoors,travel,outdoor recreation,prepping,nature,4k,wild,survival skills,ray mears,les stroud

Video Transcription

welcome to camp fire Chronicles episode number 20 I'm Robbie my name is Andrew and last time we were talking about our resolutions the channel and we did a live Q&A and we had the whole gang last time but it's just us two this time and why don't you talk a little bit about what everybody's opinion on opinion was on how we should like because we had come up with things like doing top 10 video stuff like that and people had a pretty strong reaction so I think it was pretty clear that like most people did not want to see this time yeah which is kind of a relief to me like no he's gonna see the exact same thing yeah like nobody wants to see more gear reviews on YouTube yeah top ten lists are boring but actually I was thinking about how like every time we've come to a decision like this the right decision in hindsight is always to go with what we think is right instead of like what we think would appeal to people yeah it's so true it's like whenever you try to do something - whenever you try to do something that you think people will like rather than just do what comes naturally that you like it always seems to backfire for us like I mean it seems to work for other people just fine but like burritos cursor sorry just like um like back in like when I was younger and then you would always try to do stuff to impress girls and then it was it would never work and you're like why isn't this working and then you just be yourself and then you can find like the right girls you know going along with that it's like the whole the old adage of like whenever you're not available or whatever oh yeah oh you like yeah I think there is like something to that where if you're not trying as hard to achieve something or like not trying in a sense and this kind of goes into something else we're gonna rock that but if you're not trying in the sense of like going against what comes naturally then oh that's that the we used to talk about that all the time what's that wu-wei concept or wave away yeah we're here it's like effort without effort yeah yeah effortless action or whatever yeah that's a tricky thing but um you have people definitely said just stick to your main videos don't do clickbait which is and don't do gear reviews which is

funny we did a gear review right after that right yeah that sleeping bag review that one was a long time in the making we got that from outdoor vitals like in June or maybe even though maybe April of 2017 but I mean it was a zero Degree bag so couldn't really test it till the winter but we had to do that at some point so okay so we come we came up with some topics today that we kind of wanted to talk about and one of them I guess maybe a semi related to the channel oh my guess is it's a lot really related to it but um people are always telling you what you can't in what you shouldn't do right yeah yeah and I feel like 99% of us we just listen to that and accept it as like the fact of what what has to happen but then there's always like the 1% of people who do crazy stuff and just I mean it's like I don't want to quote Steve Jobs he's been quoted to death but he he's one person who's mentioned that it's like the people who are crazy enough to change the world are the ones who do

I assume that he actually said that but even if he didn't the the point is is that like I was watching this commercial and a Super Bowl the other day and there was a dude riding a motorcycle like standing on top of it he's basically like surfing a motorcycle down the street and I can imagine that all his life this guy has been told stop doing these dangerous stunts don't do this why are you doing this stop doing this and just face like people telling him you can't shouldn't do this the whole time and he's made a career off of it like literally he's on in a Super Bowl commercial doing something that everybody told him he shouldn't or can't do it's sort of on a related note I think something that bothers me is when people like chastise people for not going into a so-called realistic field like mmm if you're studying anything that isn't like science or engineering people are like oh well this is why you can't find a job but at the same time we place so much value on the people who are doing things that are outside of those fields like any sort of art or movies like people love movies but we also scoff at people who are trying to become like actors tonight yeah this is that so weird it's like it's almost like you're

down upon if you're like some struggling actor but then if you make it you suddenly it goes through the exact opposite of the space yeah yeah well actually praise isn't you know it's funny because um well I guess like a lot of people are really unsung in other categories that they say you should be doing is well know like if you want to be like a scientist like researching medicine and disease and stuff like you don't get any praise for that it's kind of like you just have to love doing it that's true yeah yeah but like stuff like acting I guess there is that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow for achieving it it's weird we've as a whole in society I feel like we have a weird set of priorities yeah it's like teachers you know like teachers teachers yeah y-you know that's the weirdest thing that there's two components of that actually one of them is food and the other is well I mean so teachers like they are literally raising the next generation of humans like they are teaching them and they're the most underpaid undervalued and then they're forced to like follow this curriculum that's very rigid and it's like you look you're literally making the next batch of humans okay and if you want like a better world shouldn't we be investing all of our effort into that and like applauding or rotting the people who are doing it you know yeah and what's what's amazing is like a lot of these places now teachers are having to spend their own paycheck for like supplies and stuff it's actually really yeah I mean I think a lot of public schools at least are like getting their funding cut I do that is crazy man yeah like it a few years ago like the neighbors down the street they have like kids in elementary school and they were telling us that their kids don't have recess anymore what yeah it said maybe there was just that school but I was like man you gotta like know okay that's where I was going with the food actually was like the food that we're feeding kids as well it's like literally food is literally what you make your body with okay and then like the schools we I don't know when I was in school dude did you have like the Little Debbie snack carts where you could get all the snacks

if you sense it's like there was no restriction on it is just if you had the money you could go by and make yourself sick with fudge rounds and honey buns and all sorts of terrible stuff like that like I know people some people get upset when it they're like oh the government's imposing their healthiness on us yeah maybe we should have some vegetable options that's all we're saying like oh well no I think the other thing is okay so food is an interesting topic because the your vegetables like real unprocessed Whole Foods are no competition for processed foods like who in their right mind would say okay I'm gonna have this bowl of spinach instead of this pepperoni pizza like unless you really had like the gumption and the desire to be super healthy like your body's just gonna be like yo I want that pizza like just let's get the pizza so manat wanting like I mean really understand that too because like I don't really want people legislating that type of thing like trying to legislate moral behavior yeah but the at the same time like there's no other options and the that's a man that's like but it's not a matter of legislating it it's a matter of having some sort of influence so that everybody is able to get like the same sort of nutrition if they choose yeah yeah cuz there are places where there are no supermarkets like some places in the city some places out in the rural yeah what do they call those again food deserts or something yeah yeah yeah dude it's like Burger King is like calorie wise is your best option and I don't know why I always use Burger King it's like who even goes to Burger there's um there's like some anecdote one of the guys in Evansville was like oh we can we go to a gas station like we fight he met a place to like pump gas but he meant like a place to get food really why don't you just say like the stores yeah like specific

gasps can we go to the petrol station so I can fill up my automobile and my billet you know one thing I will say those like yeah it's true that like if you put some delicious processed food and a plate of like tepid spinach in front but at the same time like I've known people who like what am I my friends lived in like the AG agriculture building and hexakill II so I use a computer science major the only reason he chose that building is because the word food was in this dude is like he lived with like a bunch of people who were like their parents were farmers and they were studying agriculture but there's one roommate of his they're just like didn't eat vegetables went to the salad bar one time like got a bunch of ham and put ranch like like there I get that

processed food is more appealing but at the same time I don't understand like why you wouldn't want some vegetable sample he's like there's a lot of tasty vegetables no it's for sure dude I well go ahead well I I think the problem is like people are eating like steamed broccoli and yeah yeah something cooked well I I feel like maybe we've talked about this before on a podcast or somewhere oh my my yeah it was like my mom always told me this story that she didn't like real green beans for a long time because she grew up eating canned green beans

so like she didn't even know what real green beans were supposed to taste like although that's a little bit different cuz she actually liked the can green beans okay does anyone actually like green beans that are like crunchy I mean I know a lot of people do but why oh I mean I like them but I mean I also like soft green beans to like though cooked a little bit more I'm just like it's a fun crunch man it's like no it's weird I've always had like a weird texture thing with like bean sprouts those crunchy white bean sprouts oh yeah similar but at the same time you like those who know but I do like water chestnuts in like baby corn and I know a lot of people who don't like it cuz they're crunchy so I mean I love those crunchy bean sprouts especially when you put them in ramen man I mean I like them a lot better now and I'll put out and stuff but oh yeah Oh what has gonna asses have I met that guy who ate the ham with the ranch no no you know I mean you've met Jess who's okay oh it's Jesse's it's kind of funny you know I actually found possibly two you know so like diet to what people think about food it varies vastly right but I think I found two incontrovertible things

yeah truth so that everybody can agree on if they're not part of an industry that needs to lobby for it this is Robbie's food dogma one of them is that sugar is universally bad like who could who's gonna argue for sugar mmm like this does anybody want to still make that argument that processed sugar is a good thing besides it now Larry sugar industry you're saying processed sugar like does that include not include any crew more like not including fruits or honey and stuff like that okay those are debatable people will debate those silly in time although in large quantities probably yeah yeah I mean oh well you know that's another thing it's like you've probably seen like those click baits where it's like this is what bananas used to look like or what watermelons used to look like yeah the fruit and stuff that we have now is like so hyper sweet because we've selectively bred the ones that are the sweetest and probably less fibrous too so but anyways sugar is universally bad I feel like that's a universal that's very easy and you have no what's the word nutritional need for it like there's no nutrition to be derived from it there's only energy and then the other one is that humans have survived on unprocessed food since the beginning of humans so processed food is technically unnecessary yeah yeah that's so like I mean I I have done almost no reading on this but yeah people harp on the Paleo diet all the time and I get it and like I don't think that there's one specific diet yes all of humanity but also like I feel like you can't go that wrong eating stuff that like stone believe I don't know I mean yeah I just like that there's definitely sorry go ahead

okay the the there is definitely a breadth of different things in different ways to eat I just like I'm I was just recently thinking about it's like there has to be some truths that everybody can agree on and I feel like those two seem like no-brainers I feel like whenever I eat healthy I just default to like making vegetables the largest food group in whatever I'm yeah well this is Michael Pollan he said that like after researching a lot of it he's just like a food journalist but he said eat food mostly plants and not too much and that seems like a fairly safe route necessarily how I eat but if any of it people have adapted like I don't know good because I you know fat yeah just pretty much all meet at least when it's like winter because that's all there is yeah I'm sure they adapted right over a course in many generations oh well I mean like lactose intolerance used to be dominant I think oh really yeah and we've adapted to drink milk well the thing is just like now you can survive even on terrible diets so it's like evolution in that sense I don't think it's really happening anymore mmm like the Selective you know well anyways what I was gonna ask is how do you usually eat once one meal a day right yeah yeah how does that work for you because I tried that a day or two ago just to see how it went and I was starving but well I don't know it's weird like for me I feel like this goes back to the whole inertia thing we always talk about yeah yeah I feel like if I'm not eating and I just like the longer I go without eating the less I feel like I need to and then like usually I just wait until I go to the gym and exercise because I don't know in the past I've like exercised after eating and it get cramps or like it just doesn't feel that good yeah but then when I get back I'll eat and the inertia kicks in and like I want to keep yeah go ahead no I think it's just some works out like Chris I'm wondering like how wind when should you trust your body and when should you not trust it because like it like that's like kind of a modern like New Age thing to say is like listen to your body but my body will tell me things that are wrong all the time that's true yeah so I don't really know when to listen to be like this is just hunger because I want to eat out of boredom or if this is hunger where I actually need food you know yeah you know I don't know I feel like well like people would probably say that I should eat breakfast and stuff and that there are studies that show like breakfast improves like cognitive ability in children in school and stuff but I also feel like I don't know like when when humans first came about they weren't doing math problems at like 7 a.m. you know yeah yeah for sure like because I can still function like more or less it's just as if I'm like having to take a test or something I'll be thinking about food instead but well is research lately that has been said because like I feel like the breakfast is the most important meal of the day was kind of like just a old wives tale and it's kind of gotten in there there might be new research proving it like so showing otherwise but there there has been research showing that but I mean like science is always changing I think that's something people don't yeah that's the problem I mean like the food pyramid for awhile was just like oh is it like 11 servings of carbs yeah 11 servings of like wheat and pasta and stuff and it's like I think that's very healthy but I was about to say about that um oh and also like maybe breakfast is the most important meal for kids but they're also growing you know like is that still the most important meal for adults and everything yeah I don't know cuz I I feel like a hundred gathering person would not food immediately in the morning but who knows well the you know the thing is in general is that there is a tendency to I mean we've talked about this before but like romanticize the past mm-hmm and be like oh man things were so much better there then the truth is is that you just fix a problem in one area and sometimes a problem creeps back up in another area so like yeah yeah modern society we've fixed so many diseases right and like we have a really good life expectancy but we've kind of forgotten how to eat yeah because we have whatever we can whatever we want to eat it was net in the past is just like restricted to what we had available this that's the thing there's a lot of people like I've seen some comments on our channel where at least on like the first Dolly Sods video I remember seeing a comment that was like oh like you wax poetic about the past but there were all these problems life expectancy was like 30 bla bla bla and like it's true like there there is I mean I think people mistake us when we say look at what our ancestors did as saying like oh this is how we should live yeah but what I'm actually saying is we should look at what they're doing and integrate it into it yeah yeah I mean it's impossible for all of humanity to be hunter-gatherers but yeah but we can still adopt some of their practices like a being a Galit Arian and peaceful and yeah not making nuclear weapons you know although I will say one thing the whole thing where everyone's like oh back then like back when people hundred and gathered if they only lived at thirty lesson that's not true yeah that was including infant mortality right right okay right in which like again that's it's not that that's not a problem but once you live past infancy people were still living in two very old ages and they were very healthy yeah and you know I feel like people had to have been more robust than just add a simple fact that like there was no choice but to be robust yeah like now it's like you can be the most unrolling

and it's like it's almost like society in like there's no grand conspiracy here it's just like this is just this is just what happened this is just what happens is that like we have all this entertainment at our fingertips and it's all very entertaining it's easy it's so much easier to just like be sedentary you know absorb it absorb media instead of create media or watch people dancing instead of dancing yourself or watch people singing instead of singing yourself you know so it's like where was I going with that well I don't remember where I was going with that but the the real trick is is to take the lessons from the past and modernize them you know it's kind of like the one episode of The Simpsons where Homer is like Marge you know if I learn one thing I forget how to do another thing it's like like that time I learned how to make wine and I forgot how to dry and then Marcia of course says Homer you didn't forget how to drive you were just drunk but it's like the same kind of principle of like yeah yeah it's like there's nothing necessitating that like that all the problems that exist like there's no reason for them to exist at this point like I mean when when agriculture first came about that's usually when people think that like inequality happened because like somebody was producing these things and they started owning land and stuff yeah but it's like nowadays we like back in the feudal age maybe there wasn't enough food to go around everybody or something I don't know but now we have more than enough stuff to like meet everybody's needs yeah what is that we're not doing it it's so tragic too because like the the statistics on food waste in the u.s. it's something god-awful like 40 30 or 40 percent of the food that's made is thrown away yeah I mean even like like there's the aspect of like customers and like people who buy food throwing it away but there's also like the production side of things like even before it leaves the farm a lot of fruit just gets left behind because it doesn't look good yeah because it's not like pretty enough to put in supermarkets you know I mean I understand it like if you put some I mean I understand on a certain level but it's also like we have to like educate ourselves and like yeah you know get beyond that at some point because if we keep going into the grocery store like I only want the most beautiful looking bananas I only drink the finest African banana but did you know that bananas used to be different

we talked we probably took I mean look that's part of the clickbait one that I was just talking about yeah they were all like seedy and super fibrous and stuff well like even as recently as the 50s they used to taste different oh really

they used to taste like what banana flavoring tastes like like in candy and stuff oh okay well maybe that's why banana flavoring doesn't taste like bananas

yeah so like all of the bananas we eat from my understanding are like clones so like well I'm really sorry yeah they're actually you can't grow the same type of Apple from a seed you have to clone it which is weird like yeah yeah yeah maybe it's the same type of principle as like you get a healthier dog when it's a mutt instead of like a loan maybe we'd get healthier apples for us I don't get better stormtroopers when yeah I don't know so well then just I guess the moral of the story is that well how do we get on food in the first place we were talking about school lunches oh yeah and the moral is service kind of that the problems just they change because yeah this was not a problem like you look at squirrels like I there's a lot of squirrels in my yard so I'm always looking at squirrels and they eat acorns like all day but that's literally all they eat they don't even have to think about it just like I mean just keep eating the acorns until there's no more acorn select but it's like as a human you can't do that because we have the ability to make our own food and we like have taste and you know preferences and everything so it's not that simple for us anymore mmm which I mean and I think like yeah there's ups and downs but I think we can figure out a way to have mostly ups like yeah like I don't think we have to sacrifice like delicious food in order to eat healthfully by any means like well my brother he was recently he came up with kind of a strategy where he says eat like a popper most of the time and then eat like a prince occasionally hmm so don't go crazy with like the indulgent like foods that will kill you all the time but use it as a treat and then it's let's see I think we also need to just like fundamentally change what we think of as indulgent way it's like I don't know I mean I feel like there's so many healthy dishes that are really tasty like I have that's true yeah well I mean but it kind of appeals to our addictive side because like sugar for example it's like when you look at brain scans of someone on cocaine and someone on sugar it's like sugar is even more powerful I I believe that a B sugar man it's like good lord dude if I could eat whatever I wanted it would just be cereal three times a day let's go sledding down a big hill oh man it's cereal in such a long time just like when you first pour that milk on there and there's that perfect crunch but like the cereal is getting I'm like my mouth is watering thinking of that you know it's funny I'm like I don't eat cereal that often but recently I've had it a little bit but sometimes like after eating a few bowls or like a - two bowls or something yeah yeah I eat out of a mug so I don't know what the measurement is but uh like I don't know if it's cuz the cereal is cutting my mouth or what it's probably a variety of factors yeah I started feeling like kind of sick and oh no I mean like I like when I think back on it I always kind of felt sick after eating but I just like tastes so good and like when you're young you can get away with it like now I'm past thirty it's like I think maybe that's um I gotta kind of realized students I'm past thirty and like your body's just not as resilient to crap that you put inside of it anymore yeah so like stuffing my face with cereal is just what cereal were you eating out of curiosity like a foreman I mean what's uh fruity pebbles and golden crisp well off-brand versions golden came in a bag okay well I was gonna say maybe fruity pebbles would cut your mouth like that's a super sugary one but uh yeah the peanut butter crunch here you've had that before it yeah actually that was another one was crunch berries off Brandel okay yeah crunch berries and Peter brother crunch we'll cut the crap if I wasn't really called like cut berries yeah yeah it's like you know how they put like fiberglass and chewing tobacco to like no well this is what I've heard in like high school health class so I feel like it's probably true but apparently they put stuff in there so it'll like make little cuts on your mouth to like get all the chemicals in there oh that's horrible

yeah I mean feel free to fact-check that I feel like I said okay real quick yeah but uh this is all for a joke tonight it's like the crunch berries are like designed to cut your mouth open I'm like get sugar into your system faster [Laughter]

this says do menthol cigarettes contain fiberglass false and then chewing tobacco didn't come up right away it only like uh only like a message board post came up yeah I mean I feel like high school health class was designed to uh yeah justice possible without explaining why dude it like you know I kind of feel like my education was me following all the rules and then watching other people not follow them and then either get ahead from that or me realizing that I have to unlearn all the rules that I was time I don't have any specific examples but well no I guess alcohol isn't one of them like they turned me so off of alcohol like all this health classes and stuff that it may be like super self-righteous about it for a long time yeah like all only stupid people drink alcohol and only stupid people smoke cigarettes and all this stuff totally instead of taking a much more pragmatic approach of just like well you know that is something we could talk about because uh I had for the longest time I had the same sort of attitudes about alcohol and I totally understand anyone who still does like and it's funny because specifically related to like camping and nature and stuff I remember my freshman year roommate was like really into the outdoors and hiking but he was also really into like drinking and partying and for the longest time I just saw those as like conflicting forces and I was like these things are like the antithesis of each other yeah one of them is you're in the quiet solitude you're living healthfully the others but I think like well first of all I think it's best to just live life open to different experiences but also I don't know even if they are the antithesis they sort of have a similarity in the sense that like when I first went camping it was opening myself up to completely new experiences and like nature is weird because it's it's got the side of it where it can be very new but it can also be something super familiar and whereas like drinking alcohol and going in parties was like so also something that was like a very new experience to me when I first did it and I don't know I I think like it's so interesting because in general I think of like outdoors people it's like falling into two categories and one is like people who have lived in like the country all their life and so it's super familiar to them and people who like have lived in the city and mm-hmm I don't know it's just interesting thing about how it relates to people and yeah well no it's something you just said made me think about the like the self-righteousness about alcohol and partying and stuff like that at least that I experienced I think a lot of it was masking the fear of the unknown and like the like the newness of it so like when you like for example when like when I was in college I didn't go to mini parties and like if I could give an excuse and I probably like was trying to rationalize this excuse to myself like oh I don't want to go drinking I don't want to go beat these stupid people and party and stuff they're just like doing stupid stuff yeah but in reality it was probably and not probably in reality it was just me being scared to go you know and like usually using that as a rationalization well there was there's another aspect of it for me at least where Farrah was almost part of me about wanted to do it like I in a way I felt left out because I didn't do it and then I had to rationalize to myself that like it was not it was something beneath oh yeah yeah that's another part yeah cuz you you know you want to be part of it but that's like yeah yeah like oh no I'm an it's like um well I mean it's like very like third-grade behavior I was like I didn't want to play with it anyway well there's that line in the the what about me song the Eagle Hill which one is it the one with I've been away or whatever oh yeah I've been away yeah but there's the part where the guys rapping and he's talking about how it like like she's talking from the perspective of ego and he's saying that he hates like the unfamiliar oh yeah yeah yeah because it's like the same force that like gives you pride and a sense of like self is also the force that'll make you afraid of new experiences because like it just could look stupid yeah yeah and do some dumb stuff you know I was just uh this is totally tangential but I was just reading an article on like these kind of new the new jackass you know the show jackass back in the day the new jackass is all like these YouTube pranksters and stuff just doing stupid stuff like he shall not be named who went to Japan and did a bunch of stupid stuff yeah they were saying the big difference in the article the author was saying the big difference is that in jackass the people doing the stunts always made sure that they were the butt of the joke like they were always the stupid idiot you know but in this new age it's always somebody else is the butt of the joke and they're they just come away looking clean you know yeah that's interesting and it's like really disturbing to me that like young people are looking up to people like that you know that sort of the sort of goes along with like when comedians complain about not being able to say certain things I feel like there's a very stark difference between making fun of people who are in a position above you versus beneath you you know yeah yeah I guess somewhat like like making fun of a handicapped person like they've already got enough in their life yeah it's like they've got enough troubles as it is but like people who are already high in stature it's like come on like yeah like well though in general I just feel like making fun of anybody is like like if you make fun of yourself that's like the ultimate you can make fun of other people using yourself if that's really what you want to do yeah just like louis c.k he was always talking about like which by the way is his career like destroyed now I have no idea what's going on with him yeah I don't know anybody didn't do it recently I haven't either but in any case he um he in some interview he was like so when I'm talking about like some person who was sitting next to me on the plane I'm always talking about myself he's like it's always me that I'm actually talking about I'm the idiot who I'm making fun of in the skit yeah yeah but it's just like self-deprecating humor can like enlighten a lot of things isn't there like do people not like self-deprecating humor or something like I I don't know I mean I think a lot of people like it but I've also heard like I don't know well I it's like Conan I feel like it's the master of self-deprecating humor yeah but it's like he also he's like he go maniacs himself all the time too but in a way it's like self-deprecating Conan is a great comedian God it is still like the only late-night host that I care about him yeah no totally I'm totally in agreement I'm so glad that you know actually like it I'm sure it was very tough for him but I'm glad that he didn't become the next NBC guy because if he did he wouldn't have liked his YouTube channel and his YouTube channel is literally the only way I experience his stuff now yeah like it's I remember back in the day I had that DVD of the Conan 10th anniversary and I remember watching them yeah and I would watch that over and over because they were just it was basically just like his YouTube clips where he goes traveling somewhere but it back then that was the only way you could get it was on a DVD if they made a show that was just Conan traveling around and playing video games and doing stuff like just all the remotes and clueless gamers personally I would love that so much dude like I would want to produce that show I would just want to be following him around with the camera Travel Show with Conan would be unbelief oh my god dude what if they did a crossover of Anthony Bourdain and Conan over every amazing man oh god that would be so good it's like Anthony Bourdain given his pretentious like philosophy and then Conan O'Brien making fun of him like Georgia sling dude this should just do Jordan slansky and Conan O'Brien travel the world like make a movie in a documentary and like a TV series like watch all of it TBS you know you you can pay us for the rights of so you just mission video games and I just saw a really good Facebook post that my friend shared with me I'm just talking about how people romanticize books or maybe that's not the right word but they're like yeah I mean I can't wait to curl up with a book and like just read a book all day and then it'll be like a stormy weather with a nice hot cup of cocoa or something and it's like he was like I can't the post was like I can't wait until video games can be looked at in the same way you know really what you think about it they're just two different forms of media it's just for some reason like oh go ahead no I was saying I feel like they'll become like that once a new form of media comes about yes yeah that's actually what I commented I was like once the next form of media comes out that old people can start blaming through all the ills of society then video games can enjoy that so uvr using people we used to only have one screen cool dude you know actually that's kind of already happening like people like the reaction that even myself has had towards VR I'm just like I don't know about this man but well yeah I have mixed feelings because I think there should be a healthy dose of skepticism yeah but at the same time it's not that big a deal either yeah yeah well I mean that well yeah because I was gonna say that um well agonistic just kind of goes back to you have new problems but like apparently back in the day people would gather around the piano like at night instead of the TV because before there's TV and then they would just sing and dance and stuff next to the piano as entertainment every night and it's hard to say well I mean I guess it's in one aspect you can say it's damash of lis worse which is that you're not interacting with the TV and you're like using your brain is much but at the same time man you can tell some amazing stories with TV Oh totally and like learn some amazing things you know I think maybe the problem is we think too often in like hierarchies like it's not that one forum is better than another purely it's just that certain forms are better for certain things like yeah if you're reading a book like that's a great way to gain knowledge it's a great way to like stretch your imagination but if you're watching a movie or TV that's a great way to like have something super visually and audio like audibly yeah yeah yeah yeah oh but you know maybe part of the stigma is that like a lot of what you see on TV is like the media equivalent of Fifty Shades of Grey in books yeah yeah it's just appealing to your most base like nature and it doesn't really challenge you you know well you know I guess go ahead oh I was saying I guess maybe it lends itself to that in a certain way since its it's probably a lot easier to consume TV but yeah that's true because I mean it's very passive you can just sit there let it wash over you I think for me the big differentiator between good anything and bad anything is what was the intent behind it like if whatever it happens be like Fifty Shades of Grey okay I've never read it I have no idea what I am I gotta know a little bit what it's about but the person who made it if the person who wrote it was just super passionate about it it was like I must write this and it's like a calling if that was the intention and that was the place that it came from then I don't begrudge any of its success I'm like great and I'm and I hope that you enjoyed making I hope that the people who read it enjoy it I hope everybody who's involved in it was like getting a lot out of it it's the stuff that's just made purely for profit and to like cash in on something that I just like have no stomach for yeah yeah which is weird because I feel like Star Wars is kind of like right on that line it's both it's like yeah it's like I mean it's it's hard to separate the two in today's society it's like this yeah that's sure because money is like kind of what makes it happen in the first place so although like people could be pretty passionate about

terrible things though I mean but like it's lobbies they it's from a genuine place like in general is just a general yeah yeah it's just like okay as you say as long as it's not some ulterior motive like if you're just wanting fame or fortune then it's like man I don't care about what you're creating mm-hmm you know so this is something I've been actually thinking about recently because I recently not really rediscovered but I just started watching Iron Chef again on YouTube and oh yeah yeah I saw in the other stuff about this the other day but like there's some TV shows where they'll dramatize things in a very disingenuous way so like like mud mud Road fishermen or whatever you see on Discovery Ice Road Truckers yeah dirt road dirt road Deadliest Catch [Laughter]

they'll always focus on like these minut conflicts between the characters and like drum them up as some big thing yeah like okay perfect example I was watching this like hunting channel at my sister's place one time and this like this guy hunted an animal and like didn't tag it immediately which I guess is something before like walking to his car or something it was like some minor rule he broke mhm and like the warden goes over to me he's like oh this guy didn't tag it okay we're gonna have to go confront him and later there's this really intense music and it like cuts to commercial and then it comes back and he's like talking to me as like so uh you didn't tag that oh yeah sorry I just forgot oh okay I'm gonna let you off with a warning but I just remember you to do it next time there's no drama there you're just trying to kill yeah but if you look at a show like Iron Chef or like I don't know what else but like a drama like what else the 21st century battle where they brought the show back to have a big competition yeah yeah chairman Akaka is wearing this like really flamboyant uniform more people playing trumpets like play these flourishes and he comes out on a horse and like it is so incredibly dramatic but it's like the type of drama where you can tell that whoever was creating the show was like yes look I am really passionate about artistic like gourmet cooking and it deserves this sort of drama yes yes absolutely dude it's like if what it's like it comes from a real place right like the whoever's making that show they really really care about that and like it comes through so like even though it's ridiculous it's not ridiculous in a way that you feel like this is stupid you're like this is awesome right like that guy who we saw making the coffee in Japan yeah exactly like that guy cared so much about coffee and you're just like like what he was doing like if just on the face of it it's super pretentious and stupid but when you see like the spirit behind it you're like no this is great dude I think also to his credit he was like totally fine with us not knowing what was going on in like explaining yeah yeah yeah not looking this like whereas like so the stereotype of a hipster barista would like look down on you for not knowing how dare are like an unfair characterization well you drink americano and American yeah exactly Jordan slansky he doesn't invite people into like all of his passions he looks down on people yeah yeah like I mean I know it's an act but like that's a perfect caricature of that type of mentality mm-hmm which I mean we you know trying to think if I still do that in any aspect of my life cuz like they're especially growing up like that's such a accession I feel like I definitely probably do I just can't think of anything tacos is the one for you oh yeah I'm trying to invite people into the taco taco like your method might not be the greatest because you're making fun of Taco Bell's delicious everybody knows it's delicious yeah it's delicious and it's totally chemical and scientific way it's been formulated to be the best but just like it was like such a dumb kid behavior to like try to rub your knowledge into somebody else's face like yeah I can't believe you don't know that like everybody know is that sometimes I feel like it comes from a place of feeling like like whatever you're appreciating is underappreciated yeah that's sure that's true yeah but at the same time I don't know well it's weird you kind of just want people it's like a human tendency to want people to like rally behind your cause whatever it happens to be you want to feel like you're part of a group yeah oh you know I was just watching the Olympics open opening ceremonies and they were talking about how the group is so important in Korea and I know that it's like that in Japan and Korea for sure but I don't know about the other Asian countries but it's interesting how like in Japan in Korea I don't know that much about Korea but that the group is so valued and like your personal happiness is almost value is is valued less than the group's but like in America it's all about the individual too like almost a ridiculous degree and I feel like both cultures they're too far on each side like Japan's way too far on the collective America's way too far on the individual and it's like if we it always comes back to balance if you could just meet somewhere in the middle feel like we'd all be better off because you'd be like it's in America our problem is we're way to focus on the individual when we're always just like me at all costs you know yeah you know I could see like both I guess ideologies being like a way to like I don't control people like that sounds a little too 1984 conspiracy but just like I could see both of those being a way to like manage how people behave so for example like a culture that emphasizes individuality and caring about yourself it could be used in a sense to like Drive you to purchase lots of goods for yourself or something you know what I mean like yeah but but then again like if you emphasize too much on like oh it's all about all of us together that could just be a way to get like workers to like yeah more docile ya know I mean it's like if you can just find like well no it cuz like a lot of those um ya know I was just gonna start talking about conspiracy theories but it I could totally see what you're saying though like it either way they could be used against people I mean but I do think in general like it having the more communal focuses I don't think that's a bad thing why just like especially in our culture like community is really kind of taking a backseat to individuality and like there's pros and cons to that of course but maybe it's about who is like being told to to care about themselves it's like maybe there are certain people who should start caring more about community and certainly more caring enough about themselves you know yeah well the I'm also kind of like not a huge believer in like it's a very nice idea and I really like it in my stories and like movies and stuff like that but the idea of the hero with the ironclad will who can make anything happen

oh yeah it's just like the general idea of the American Dream of like pulling yourself up from nothing I feel like that's such a like it's a very romantic cool idea but it's not very conducive to happiness for either the hero or for people in general because like if that's what it takes is if you have to be like a Casey nice that who can just like sleep two hours a night do so much every single day just to become like comfortable in life I feel like that's there's something fundamentally wrong there I saw this uh this quote from Elon Musk and he's like oh just just work a hundred hours a week and you know you'll get ahead of people it's like even if you're not working that hard you're still looking more than them did you know how much 100 hours a week is that's like the whole week if you have no weekends if every single day is a workday that's 14 hours a day like I feel like we have some so often have this like really self-flagellating attitude and like we romanticize work like

get me wrong I I romanticized work in the sense that like it feels good to get out hiking it feels good to like get your hands dirty and do things but I'd like their work can absolutely be fulfilling but also like working 14 hours a day in a company seven days a week that is not normal like that is just so antithetical to human existence like I mean that literally like I don't even things are not designed to do sort of like mind-numbing work for that long well you didn't like fulfilling work I don't think we're designed to do it that long yeah that's like a that's not you can barely get enough sleep doing that right and there's no time for like how would you even find like a mate if you're working that much you know I was just reading that if if people produce the same amount of output as they did in 1950s like before technology advanced mmm-hmm like we're working the same if not longer hours right yeah yeah if we produce the same amount of output we would only have to work like two hours a day yeah I was like whenever I see my mom using technology I'm like you know technology isn't our friend like unless you really like technology and like discovering how to use things mmm it just makes your life more difficult or like it'll allow you to do more work but the workload just increases it's not like you get to do the same amount of work more easily you know I mean right in theory that's like what everyone back then thought it was gonna be like yeah yeah just look at the Jetsons like we thought we were gonna be like getting dressed by robots and stuff and like people would be totally free to do what they line it because the machines are doing a little work and like there there are machines doing work it's just you know it's just like replacing jobs that people write rely on for a living I don't know we've just been going from one topic tonight you want musk the dude is an outlier he's just like the casein ice that example I was talking about it's like you can't we're we romanticize outliers to such like a ridiculous degree I just don't feel like it's a realistic man like I maybe it's just cuz I'm getting older or something I don't know but like the whole idea of like conquering all and becoming like this hero who's like achieved amazing things it's just like yeah you might be able to do that and one person might be able to do that but how does that help everybody you know like just sounds like you need to smoke more Marlboros and you a cowboy hat no actually it's really funny because like that hero narrative is so prevalent and like we think of like major historical figures like presidents are like MLK and stuff and like yeah they were great people or whatever but we always neglect the fact that there was like an entire group of people yes yeah like it's not just this one person like it doesn't happen like it does in movies where this hero character gives a rousing speech and then and then suddenly everybody's changed yeah yeah yeah like in V for Vendetta or something I still haven't seen that movie see that [Laughter]

we've talked about that shower scene in that movie right that sounds so funny cuz it sounds like a not-safe-for-work or something

go ahead explain what the scene so in the scene there's like the like minister of propaganda guy talking head on the Buganda news show he's like he's in the shower at his home and he's got like TV screens all around him he's just watching himself give a speech reciting it to himself and he's like really into it

he's like miming the words that he's saying on the screen while showering but uh the junk is every when we first made the first few adventure at archives episodes when we'd watch them over and over again because they're like really excited at the time you were always joking that you would like me watching the episode just mind me what you yes yes give me that philosophy yes slow-motion shot yep dissolve okay music comes in it's like the scene in Truman Show where the director guy is like oh yeah lights up and he's like got this face is like yes yes it's so funny now because we don't even watch our episodes like we make them is like okay I'm done looking at that process that's not true I watched scenes and stuff yes it's like it depends what time of day it is but um it's not quite the same thrill anymore okay so we're at about 54 minutes right now we've still got two more items that we can still talk about let's just talk about because we kind of talked about dramatization the other one I want to talk about was taste in things in general but we can talk about that some other time it's just like everybody has different tastes in movies and stuff and what they want well I really want to talk about we can talk about this just succinctly is gear acquisition syndrome which is where you get so focused on like the exhibit thanks for joining us what was it no I was like yeah it's bad thanks for joining like the example always uses my dad he used to talk about this when I was a kid I didn't really understand it because I didn't have my own income to buy things with he's talking about like tennis racquets he would always like look at tennis racquets in like oh I'm gonna get this tennis racket and then once I get this tennis racket I'll finally be a good tennis player or whatever and they didn't get the tennis racket and realize that nothing really changed like it was a slightly better tennis racket and like in the same way my big one is I mean I think for a lot of our viewers the big one is camping gear you know like I'm gonna get this knife I'm gonna get this new tent I'm gonna get this whatever and we look at reviews and stuff for me my big kill ease heel is cameras I do as soon as I like get a new lens like it doesn't satisfy me and I'm like okay great I'm gonna use this lens I'm like no okay what else can I get you know mm-hmm and I feel like it's uh so first my question is do you have this problem with anything I I definitely used to have it for nice well you know I I don't know if I have it so much with like year specifically but I definitely think to myself all the time like oh man I should learn this skill and I never do it and mmm Notley if I did not much would change but so no I think there are definitely situations where I'm like I should do this and I don't but it's not always tied to like buying here necessarily but yeah I guess just the the big thing I've been thinking about a lot lately is a tool versus what you use a tool for yeah and I feel like I at least fall into this trap so often where I'm thinking too much about the tool and not enough about the actual experience or sometimes just like the acquisition of the tool becomes the whole point like a good example is video game collecting at some point when you if you become a collector collecting becomes more of the point than playing the games but originally the point was to play the games and we imbue things with like more qualities than they have yeah yeah material level yeah anyways just like some I've been thinking about so you don't have specific thoughts about it probably like I'm sure I've fallen into this but I just nothing's coming in my head but like it's not because I'm infallible I definitely have done like for a longest time I was so obsessed with knives and I kept looking at nice and I'll I got man I need this one well what made you finally stop thinking about them I don't know actually actually it might have been just the fact that I started using them it was like I really don't need more times like these definitely good enough yeah I don't know but like the longest time knives were just like just like the sight of a knife was really cool yeah yeah that's weird that I never got into that like cuz I've gotten a lot of things but like knives never really excited me but maybe it's because I never even had any purpose for them the the irony is that I think I was like one of the last people to get a knife Mangla cuz like Brian's had one for a long time and I feel like I know like Danny got one when we went camping that one oh yeah yeah yeah like yeah just yeah there's me a long time to get one the just like perfecting things can also become like problematic like just like always trying to make something perfect to the point of like yeah yeah pathological but sometimes it prevents you from even doing the pain in the first place like yeah it was like you start absorb anyways like I'm just curious what other people's feelings are I mean we'd have to wait for the comments but yeah yeah like what sort of things do you pining after yes just like this pining without any real like fulfillment you know like you finally get the thing and then you're just like well that was great what's the next thing I can get yeah actually you know I feel like like I don't buy stuff but I do have a very addictive personality and that's probably like equivalent is probably just me like browsing the internet late at night or something like nothing on here could possibly fulfill me in any meaningful way but I'm gonna keep searching and yeah well there are Studies on rats right where they pushed a button and then they got a grape right or they push like a certain combination and then once they learned how to do that like it would trigger a response like of dopamine which is the habit-forming neuro chemical and if you made it so that sometimes you got the grape and sometimes you didn't get the grape that habit would become even stronger so like things like Reddit and Facebook

the repart of the reason why scrolling through it is so addictive is because you don't know if that next post is going to change your life it's gambling yeah no it's loot boxes is gambling it's destiny engrams it's all that stuff oh you know Monster Hunter doesn't have that does it no I man another reason I love Monster Hunter dude my loot boxes yeah it's loot boxes are kind of ridiculous because it's like if you're paying for something that's virtual you should at least be able to choose what yes exactly I think ah man yeah there's so many of those loot box things I'd like I'll look I'll pay you for the costume okay I want that little like hat for my virtual so we should do we should if you become a patreon there's a 50-50 chance you'll see it oh my god dude that would be the lowest it'll oh but other people the companies do that with no shame yeah like no shame and in fact they're like they're stock holders like they want them to do that to make money that's what happens when you become two separate from the product you're making yeah like so you make it what did they did loot boxes for physical products like big physical products like you buy a phone right there's a 50/50 chance it's a phone and like a plate of macaroni or something it's like you you might get a different phone or like you might not get a headset with it or so yeah yeah yeah like something ridiculous like it's cheaper but you might not get what you want and you'd like that's taken to the extreme obviously but okay so anyways gear acquisition I'm curious who has dealt with this who suffers from it and um like I'm especially curious for people what are your tactics for not falling into that trap of just like for example like I bought a new coat today it's weird but like for camping gear like I don't have that problem at all like I think maybe part of it is just I use all of my camping gear very much as tools like I don't look at them as like fun objects to like lust after so there's never any of that like once I bought it I'm like so done and I'm like oh thank god that's out of the way you know I just realized one reason that I think I don't get this as much anymore is because I'm such a messy person and the more stuff I have just the hard to clean up yeah yeah yeah I'm like like close especially I like there's so much stuff in my closet that I just want to donate and I've already donated a lot of it but yeah it's just more stuff it's like usually an inconvenience now at this point yeah yeah I wish I could do that I mean I'm I'm very minimalist but like I I don't know maybe it's just kind of like my personality but I get obsessive about things of like even perfecting my minimalism like instead of just like wearing the clothes I have and be like how can I make this more efficient and it's like at some point you got to just like stop and just be like yo but uh yeah well uh do you want to close it out with these two questions oh there's questions okay yeah let's do it they're like two of them yeah okay okay so well the first one's really easy Brian a asks have you considered doing more hikes in northern Lower Peninsula and Upper Peninsula of Michigan yes and we did which I'm sure he's aware of now but yeah the other one is Alex Tessman what do you think of camping cocktails some people bring beer or a bottle or something of something on back I think there's don't warm up on a cold night but I think there's room for pre-mixed drink and backpacking gear thoughts as a hobbyist mixologist

I would be happy to make something up if you all would like to try something so I think I've had this misconception I think I mean a lot of parks like they don't let you have alcohol in certain areas but I was just looking at some of the rules and I think you are allowed to bring it in a lot of places well that's that's problematic because I always thought it was against the rules - yeah and I don't I don't know like maybe I think part of it is like glass containers for sure and there probably are some places where you're not supposed to but like in Shenandoah I was just looking and it just says like it's prohibited in certain areas but and even in Hoosier where we're about to go it says prohibited at German Ridge Lake and Beach and so we can't remember just are allowed at the Hickory Ridge Tower so we can bring it as far as I can tell I mean that's what it looks like man because you know that's the big reason why we've never even thought about it before just because you can't do it we especially don't want to like just do it anyway and then film it you know right but I would love to have a beer on the edge oh yeah I have to also look that into that before we leave on a trip but uh but yeah as far as cocktails I I haven't really had many cocktails in my life so like I couldn't give you a good answer but I would love to try cocktails and I wanted like what is good one for backpacking would be like would it just be stuff with like dehydrator herbs and stuff like I really like Moscow mules and mmm I had this Brazilian cocktail kata kept Adina which is really good mmm capoeira yeah that's a gin and tonic I didn't realize it but I actually liked that a lot yeah gin tonic that's C I mean just like the times I've drank alcohol especially like cocktails and stuff it was never like for taste so mmm I didn't really think about it but I would like to do those a try my buddy Wyatt in Canada he's all about those cocktails yeah for me it's like even if it weren't for like the effects of the alcohol even the best Aysen ones that'd be like I can drink something yeah well like speaking of like my self righteous phase against alcohol like I would always be like why would you mind rink this tastes terrible mm-hmm but actually beer ila chittim Utley like the taste of so maybe it's kind of like a your taste buds change and you ought to like get acclimated to it actually you know would be awesome is like hot sake or something oh yeah I'll remember that sake we had in Japan yeah it was like turpentine oh the one that when we were camping yeah yeah yeah that's good times okay cool um yeah I think we should just go ahead and end it won't ramble too long any fibers thanks for listening to this completely unstructured podcast it's like stream-of-consciousness podcast dude that'd be a good name for our podcast if we didn't already have a name dude yeah maybe we should just change it yeah stream of can we don't have topics we can call it that stream of consciousness consciousness I'll just I'll just title this one stream of consciousness oh that's a great idea okay cool and you know yeah you can underline in case anybody doesn't get okay yeah thank you for watching and listening yeah okay Oh see you around